Community VS Saxton Hale strategy
From TF2 Wiki
|"Gotta' move that gear up!"
It has been proposed that Community VS Saxton Hale strategy be renamed and moved to Community VS Saxton Hale Strategy.
Discussion to support or oppose the move should be on this articles talk page, usually under the heading "Requested move." If, after a few days, a clear consensus for the page move is reached, one of the Admins will move the article and remove this notice.The creator of this move request has not set an expiry date.
This article is about Community strategy for the custom-made vs Saxton Hale mode.
- As this is a modified version of Arena mode, Arena tactics also apply here.
- Stick together! Teamwork here is vital.
- Try to attack the enemy from afar. He can only use melee weapons.
- Saxton's punch does about 174-220 damage. A critical hit does 585. This means that only the Heavy and possibly Soldier can survive a hit without a health buff. Pyros and Demomen with the Bottle or Ullapool Caber may be lucky to stay alive with one hitpoint left. If you somehow manage to survive, don't get cocky - search for Medic, find a Dispenser or a health pack.
- With the exception of the Spy's Knives, all melee weapons have crits forced upon them. Some weapons that normally would not be granted critical hits have this disability negated because of this.
- Taunts only do 500-600 damage. Because of this, taunt kills are rarely seen as a legitimate tactic.
- Momentum is Saxton's worst enemy. Airblasts, Sentry Guns, and other knock back inducing attacks are always good ideas to consider.
- Some servers give you critical hits after successfully taunting. Be cautious, however - taunt only if you know that Saxton is far away and/or you have someone to watch your back.
- Communicate! Alert your teammates of Saxton's whereabouts at all times.
- Never let your guard down. Saxton may sneak up behind you and quickly kill you.
- Against the Horseless Headless Horsemann Jr., try to stay in one big group or go around in a few strong groups. If you are caught alone in the HHHJ's teleport, it almost certainly means death.
- When fighting Vagineer, be sure to have at least one Pyro with the Flamethrower or Degreaser equipped. Airblasting Pyro is possibly Vagineer's worst nightmare.
- When fighting Christian Brutal Sniper, be careful no matter how far you are from the CBS, as his arrows can easily take you down at a distance.
- Because a Scout will always die in one hit from Saxton:
- The Sandman is a direct upgrade from the bat in terms of attack.
- The Atomizer is an upgrade in terms of evasion. Watch out for your health in that case, though.
- Using Crit-a-Cola involves nearly no risk.
- Using the Force-A-Nature will usually Knock back the Saxton at close range; this can be effective for escaping. Force Jumping is also useful for Escaping, such as using it to get across hazards, jump to higher ground quickly, etc.
- Always stay at long range. Your job isn't to deal major amount of damage to Saxton, but to harass and annoy him.
- Your Pistol has critical hits forced upon it, therefore it has a higher damage output than any of your primary weapons.
- As an emergency weapon, Bonk! Atomic Punch can help you get away from close encounters. Get some distance between you and Saxton before drinking Bonk as, while drinking, you are completely vulnerable.
- On a team without Medics, Mad Milk will help your team get much needed health back from close encounters with Saxton Hale.
- The Candy Cane would normally be the same as the Bat in this mode: you won't get the health benefit from killing Saxton, but he can't deal explosive damage anyway.
- The Boston Basher can be useful if you dart in and out, whacking him when he's not paying attention. Since this is an Arena-like mode, however, aim carefully.
- The Sun-on-a-Stick is a downgrade from the Bat or Sandman, since it deals 25% less damage, and only works when Saxton Hale is on fire - since he can light you up when he's on fire, the advantage provided by the weapon is outweighted by its damage reduction.
- Despite being faster than Saxton, don't get too cocky when running away from him or running around him. He might get a lucky hit in.
- After the Scout, you're the class with most mobility, especially with the Gunboats equipped. Try to stay away from your teammates and act as a sort of backup if your teammates are in danger. Just shoot some critical rockets in their way and hope that they'll push Saxton back.
- Unless critical, your rockets don't do much damage, although they provide significant knock back.
- If Saxton is too close, you can rocket jump to escape.
- The Black Box is very useful on a team without Medics as it will heal you when you hit Saxton.
- If you have a lot of teammates, consider equipping the Buff Banner to help deal some extra damage to Hale.
- The Concheror can be used to heal yourself and your teammates. If your team has either a Medic or a Dispenser, however, it won't be of much use.
- Against bosses that can Super Jump, the Reserve Shooter can deal large amounts of damage to him when he's in mid-jump.
- In this mod, the Equalizer's purpose becomes more for escaping than dealing high amounts of damage.
- The Pain Train is a direct upgrade from the Shovel since Saxton uses his bare hands. Note, however, that unless you want to capture the point (which is generally discouraged in this mode), it won't matter much.
- There isn't much of a difference in the Market Gardener and the Shovel, as the Market Gardener has crits forced upon it.
- The Disciplinary Action can be an invaluable method of escape for both you and another teammate.
- Never charge at Saxton. Your weapons do little damage, and your primary requires you to stay close to him. Even with criticals, your Flamethrower/Degreaser deals very small amount of damage compared to the other weapons.
- Consider not using the Backburner, since +10% damage bonus won't make a difference, and you'll only be able to use the airblast four times.
- Your airblast can prove to be invaluable. Blasting Saxton Hale around can disorient him, allowing your team to get some easy shots in. In addition, try airblasting him into environmental hazards such as the saw blades in Sawmill or off a cliff such as the cliff in Lumberyard.
- Stay close to ammo resources, such as Dispensers and Ammo boxes, as you will lose ammo very quickly when firing or airblasting.
- Beware of maps with water. Saxton can easily drop in and extinguish fire and afterburn damage.
- The Flare Gun's purpose is to light Saxton on fire, not to deal major damage to him.
- The Gas Jockey's Gear's speed boost may prove to be useful in escapes.
- The Powerjack is a pure downgrade from the Fire Axe because the health gain bonus is useless and it makes you more vulnerable to melee attacks while it is active.
- Use of the Back Scratcher is based off of many different factors. Are there any Medics/Engineers on your team? Are there healthpacks on the given map?
- The Sharpened Volcano Fragment is marginally useful here, if you dart in and out hitting him randomly.
- An easy way to alert your teammates of Saxton's presence is to light him on fire and make him more noticeable. This is especially useful on some of the darker maps such as Sawmill.
- The HHHJ's Superjump is actually an instant Teleport. Keep this in mind the next time you airblast HHHJ into a Death Pit or Sawblade as he can teleport to you and kill you instantly.
- You are Vagineer's worst nightmare. With a nearby Dispenser and a Medic healing you, you'll become an obstacle he can't avoid.
- Stick near any current prime target: not just Engineer areas but also the more stationary class such as the Sniper or Soldier. If you have a good source of ammo, such as an Engineer's nest or boxes nearby, and you are locked on to the boss, you can generally keep them off any target.
- In corridors or more linear areas with an ammo source nearby, possibly with the help of a team mate, you can keep the boss away from somewhere as long as needed. This is useful in areas where there might be paths laid out in the form of pits, as teammates could take shots at the boss while being buffeted by the airblast.
- You can deal most damage in a single hit, so you will be one of Saxton's prime targets.
- Always stay in high places and away from your teammates, so you will be unaffected by Saxton's stun. Your purpose is to use stickybombs to protect teammates if they're in danger, not engage in direct combat.
- Plant stickies near an Engineer's nest. If Saxton gets near, detonate them.
- If you have the Scottish Resistance equipped, place one sticky near you, so you may escape when Saxton comes after you.
- The Chargin' Targe is more for defensive purpose, as it allows you to survive one hit. Do not charge toward Saxton Hale as he can easily notice and hit you. Instead, use the Chargin' Targe as an escaping weapon as Saxton cannot keep up with the Chargin' Targe's speed.
- Some servers make the Chargin' Targe force critical hits upon your primary weapon. This might prove useful if you manage to score direct hits with your grenades.
- Because of the knock back provided by grenades when they come into contact with Saxton, it may be difficult to hit him with all four. Consider using Loch-n-Load for a higher damage output.
- With the Targe and Loch-n-Load equipped, you are unable to Stickybomb and Grenade jump. Consider this when fighting Saxton.
- Set plenty of stickytraps along map routes used by Saxton. The Scottish Resistance can come in handy for this.
- Alternatively, place a concentrated amount of stickybombs where Saxton will come from. The Scottish Resistance's extra 6 bombs will help.
- Some servers give you crits/mini-crits after taunting. If you plan on defending a certain place, taunt before laying your traps. Critical stickies will deal very large amounts of damage, as well as sending Saxton flying.
- If you are cornered, as a last ditch attempt, place sticky bombs near you and detonate them just before you get hit by Saxton. This will kill you, but will deal damage to Saxton at the same time.
- Ali Baba's Wee Booties will give you an extra 25 health, which can help you survive a hit from Saxton, but you will lose the capabilities of your Grenade Launcher.
- The Eyelander, Headless Horseless Horsemann's Headtaker, and Half-Zatoichi are replaced with the Claidheamh Mòr. This is beneficial when using the Chargin' Targe because of the extra charge distance.
- The Scotsman's Skullcutter will deal more damage, but escaping from Saxton will be harder.
- The Ullapool Caber is best used as a very last resort. Since all melee weapons have crits forced upon them, the Caber will deal 410 damage and propel you upward, possibly saving your life. Use this extra chance to escape and find a better spot.
- The Persian Persuader converts all ammo into health. This can be useful if you are low on health, but your only source of ammo for any weapons you are using will be Dispensers. It will also build up your charge quickly, allowing you to escape from Saxton more easily.
- Always have a Medic with you. You will be Saxton's main priority.
- You are the ultimate gunner in your team. Try not to go anywhere alone.
- Don't rely on your high health to survive. Saxton can beat you down in two well-placed hits.
- Stay close to a Dispenser; your guns will chew through ammunition easily and most fallen weapons will be taken accidentally by teammates.
- If you plan to just stick to one place, consider using the Brass Beast. Aside from the higher damage output, if you're constantly firing at Saxton Hale and you have a refillable ammo source, he will also be knocked back.
- If you get lucky, you may jam Saxton in a corner via your Minigun's knock back. At this stage, simply go to town with your guns until Saxton recovers.
- On a team without Medics, consider using the lunchbox items for the Heavy, as health becomes a scarcity in this mode. Even with Medics, nutritious food will help your buddies survive.
- The Sandvich and Buffalo Steak Sandvich can be dropped. Try to aim them at very wounded teammates.
- The G.R.U is often useful with a Medic; you can hit Saxton with your Minigun, and flee when he approaches.
- The Warrior's Spirit health loss will not matter much; Saxton will still be unable to kill you in one hit. The damage bonus will be useful, though.
- The Tomislav provides fast enough spin up and spin down times needed for a shoot-and-pray strategy: shoot a few rounds, then hide away.
- Stay hidden in the initial few minutes until you have your Dispenser and Sentry Gun up, mainly because you will be one of Saxton's top priority targets.
- Build your Dispenser first. Your team needs lots of ammo and health.
- Some servers have the option to replace Dispensers with Amplifiers, a machine that gives nearby teammates critical hits. Converse with your fellow Engineers to make sure you don't have only Dispensers/Amplifiers.
- Place Amplifiers in areas where, if a good amount of your team were to group around it, could keep Saxton at bay and tear through his health points.
- Using the Amplifier with a Level 3 Sentry can be useful, as the Sentry will most likely keep Saxton at bay, allowing you to pile on with critical hits from your Shotgun or Pistol.
- After building a Sentry Gun and Dispenser, you can build a Teleporter to use as an emergency escape route if Saxton gets too close. Beware, however, as it takes some time to teleport when you are on the teleporter entrance.
- Your Sentry will stay stunned longer than players. If your sentry gets stunned, it is usually a good idea to bail out and rebuild your buildings from scratch.
- If your Sentry gets stunned by Saxton's taunt, it will lose about half of its health and you will not be able to repair it unless you haul and redeploy it. When doing so, hitting the sentry while it is upgrading itself will make you lose metal as if you're repairing it, but the health of it will not increase.
- If you die, your Sentry Gun will be destroyed. Keep this in mind when fighting Saxton.
- Be careful when building a sentry nest against the Headless Horseless Headmann Junior. His teleport ability may allow him to wreak chaos in the nest.
- Sentry Guns provide significant knock back. With enough Engineers, you may provide enough force to relocate Saxton.
- This is especially useful against the Vagineer as his taunt merely Übercharges him and is still affected by knock back.
- The Wrangler is useful in dealing a high damage output and for stalling Saxton if your sentry is put in a small tunnel or doorway.
- In the Saxton Hale Mod, the Southern Hospitality is a direct upgrade to the regular Wrench, since Saxton doesn't use fire and it makes Saxton bleed - although you probably won't often be engaging in a melee battle with him.
- The Gunslinger gives you the ability to build Mini-Sentry Guns that takes less metal. Use them as a temporary defense or as an alert to see where Saxton is.
- Consider using the Jag for the faster build rate.
- Try getting the Pyro with you so he can airblast Saxton if he gets too close to your Sentry nest.
- If there is a Horseless Headless Horsemann Junior present, consider Sentry Jumping to places where the Horsemann can't reach you without teleporting.
- Be careful when camping against Christian Brutal Sniper. His Huntsman arrow can easily kill you outside of your Sentry Gun's range.
- Remember that you will be one of Saxton's priority targets, due to the fact that you can heal and ÜberCharge.
- Heal everyone. Do not prioritize one class. With the exception of a Scout wearing a Sandman and a Spy wearing a Conniver's Kunai, any class fully buffed can survive a hit from Hale.
- Do not hesitate to deploy your ÜberCharge on a teammate in danger. One extra person could mean the result of the round.
- Hale's stun is your largest threat. However you are immune to it whilst ÜberCharged. Try to stay behind your team mates to avoid being stunned and be prepared to use your ÜberCharge to save team mates when they are stunned.
- ÜberCharge gains from the Blutsauger can build your ÜberCharge extremely quickly as you gain 5 percent ÜberCharge on each successful hit. Firing needles whilst backing away from Hale can quickly build a full ÜberCharge.
- The Crusader's Crossbow is useful if played on a large map, such as Watchtower.
- Heal your teammates often, either by using your Medi Gun or the Amputator, depending on the situation and the number of potential patients.
- Don't use your Übersaw to build up your ÜberCharge unless Saxton is very distracted or if you are trying to stun him with the Spinal Tap taunt. However it is a conceivable tactic while being ÜberCharged by another Medic.
- Healing Engineers who have built a Sentry Gun will cause the Sentry to deal mini-crits to Saxton if the Engineer is wielding his Wrench. This is a good way to deal large amounts of damage to Saxton.
- Use your Crusader´s Crossbow to heal Soldiers that made a rocket jump into high areas which you cannot get to.
- Since all of your weapons have a critical boost, your SMG will have a higher damage output compared to a Heavy's Minigun. However, it has a low amount of ammo so be careful if trying to shoot Saxton to death.
- The current incarnation of the mod replaces all shields with a SMG; however, equipping the Darwin's Danger Shield will allow you to retain the extra health boost, and thus is an upgrade that should always be equipped.
- Your critical un-zoomed shot (or uncharged in the case of Huntsman) can deliver 150 damage alone. Considering the speed of Saxton Hale, it is in generally preferable to shoot him unscoped/uncharged, or go for body shots.
- A possible, but risky tactic is to use the Sniper's Skewer taunt. The taunts initial thrust is coupled with a stun on the target, meaning you can quickly take down Saxton with the help of another Huntsman Sniper if both players lock him in a taunt chain. Beware, however, of Saxton's rage taunt.
- Stay well away from Saxton. None of your weapons receive damage falloff meaning you can deal large amounts of damage to him at long ranges.
- Your fully charged Sniper Rifle is stronger than your fully charged Huntsman, and is also more accurate.
- Because of the full critical boost for your primary weapon, the Sydney Sleeper is a direct upgrade over the Sniper Rifle. It will Jarate Saxton, and the charge rate will help. It may be difficult to headshot Saxton anyway.
- The Ambassador should only be reserved for a true marksman, since its damage and firing speed is slower.
- Using L'Etranger is recommended as it allows the Spy to recharge his Dead Ringer faster and potentially survive an extra hit.
- Always go for backstabs, as the knives do not deal Critical hits.
- A successful backstab will decrease the health of the boss by 10%. Meaning, if the boss has around 1000 health, you will deal 100 damage to Saxton. It takes only a few backstabs to deal a devastating amount of damage to Saxton.
- The Cloak and Dagger will be replaced by the default Invis Watch. Generally, the Dead Ringer will be more useful for both distracting Saxton and surviving a hit or two from him.
- Because Saxton Hale is always moving, using the Invisibility Watch to uncloak behind him is difficult to pull off. Instead, use the Dead Ringer to ensure you survive most of his attacks.
- Saxton's rage taunt can reveal cloaked Spies. Cloaked Spies will remain invisible but a ring of ghosts will still float on top of their heads.
- Using the Conniver's Kunai is a direct downgrade as you can not absorb health from Saxton, and will only reduce your health available for fake deaths with the Dead Ringer.
- If you are the last surviving member on your team, going invisible will be pointless. Some servers make the "Last Man Standing" have a glowing ring around them, which won't go away when you go invisible. The Dead Ringer can still be used to survive a close encounter with Hale, but don't expect to elude him with invisibility.
- If you manage to successfully backstab Saxton, you will automatically switch to your Revolver, and a notification of the backstab will show up on both your screen and Saxton's. Also, the "Last Weapon Used" quick key won't let you switch to your knife, so if you want to quickly stab Hale again, you have to switch to your knife with the '3' key.
- Also, as Saxton is the only member on his team, your Disguise Kit will be useless against a Saxton who is paying attention. However, disguising as a friendly teammate with the Dead Ringer may fool Saxton into believing he killed a player when you are still alive.
Strategy: Playing the Bosses
- General etiquette is not to cap the point(s) as one of the bosses unless the situation is desperate. Generally, this is when one or more of the following occur:
- Your health drops under 2000
- Opponents be heavily entrenched, especially with a sentry farm.
- When there is only a single Scout left who is running away.
- Remember that you are not invincible, especially on a small server with a small amount of opponents (e.g. if you only have one opponent your health is about 500). If you cannot charge forward, find another route toward their stronghold.
- Be careful of chasms such as the pits in Nucleus as they are difficult to get out of them and even if you do escape, it will have taken a big chunk out of your health.
- Another thing to be wary of are the other environmental dangers in the map such as getting trapped in a lift door or getting hit by a train. Some of these cannot be escaped from and you become more or less at your enemy's mercy.
- Fire is your friend, especially if you have high enough health. It is effective in that you use it to charge your rage meter.
- Knock back will be your worst enemy. Deal with Pyros, Force-A-Nature Scouts, Heavies, and Engineers/Sentry Guns first before you go after other classes. However, do not be unwilling to go with the flow; you might just get knocked back in the direction of another enemy.
- If a Pyro is constantly airblasting you, remember that they only have 200 ammo with them at one time.
- On a server with large amount of players, feel free to use a brute-force approach against the enemy. Chances are more probable that you will catch one or two easily.
- Remember to use your taunt! (default "g"). Despite being a taunt, you can still move around and beat enemies to death. However, don't spam the taunt button as it will cause you to do a normal taunt after your stun taunt. You should use your taunt when one of the following was encountered:
- Trying to catch a Scout, the only class that can outrun you.
- Knock back clusters, e.g. Pyro and Scouts. Although they might be a small group, they are your worst opponents as they prevent you from approaching.
- A cluster of opponents, as well as Sentry nests. The taunt, aside from allowing the boss to quickly dispatch a bunch of opponents, also helps eliminate the knock backs from the Sentry Guns.
- The last player(s) on the other team that you just can't catch up to.
- If the Engineer dies, his Sentry Gun is also destroyed. If both an Engineer and his Sentry Gun are stunned, go after the Engineer.
- If you find a teleporter, break it. It will either force the Engineer to go and replace it or deny said Engineer an escape route.
- Superjump may have disadvantages in some situations; a cluster of well placed Sentry Guns and Heavies can easily send you hovering above ground, making you a floating target, possibly until you die.
- Using the Superjump to reach a Sentry nest and then instantly deploying your rage taunt before the Sentry Guns can respond will allow you to catch anyone up there off-guard.
- If you manage to hit a Spy, chances are that they're using the Dead Ringer. If you suspect a Dead Ringer Spy, you can use your taunt to locate him or smash likely hiding spots.
- If you fall on top of an enemy, they will be crushed to death. However, don't rely on this to eliminate the other team and only rely on it for unsuspecting enemies below you and the lucky kill now and again.
- If there are Spies around, resist the urge to do a superjump. Your speed will descrease significantly and it will give Spies the perfect chance to backstab you.
- Superjumping while you are already airborne or Jumping, while moving forward, will lunge you forward at a fast speed and still maintains a height of a normal super jump. Just remember not to charge the Superjump fully while you are airborne as you may lose time and hit the ground first. Use this to quickly go around enemies or to go across the map.
Horseless Headless Horsemann Junior
- If you have low health, retreat to a safe corner, provided that your opponents are not capturing the point.
- Use teleport to surprise your enemies before either giving your opponent a quick chop or stunning them with your taunt. All players need to do is hit you with a melee weapon and then you will pop out of them, so it would be a good idea not to have anyone looking at you while you are teleporting so that they do not get their melee weapon out.
- Right before letting go of the crouch button before teleporting, press your attack button, as this will cause you to chop the person you teleport in to.
- Remember that you cannot Superjump, so high places (such as the boxes on Granary) are relatively unaccessible, especially if there are Sentry Guns or Pyros that will knock you back if you try walking there. In order to counter this, make sure you have a teleport charge ready, and hope that you will end up in the high place you were planning to go while simultaneously taunting to make sure no one can escape.
- The Horseless Headless Horsemann Junior's Super Duper Jump is actually just an instant teleport, like a normal HHHJ teleport, but without the charge time.
- As of June 3, 2011 patch, you can perform the Decapitation taunt. Use it if you get stunned by the Sandman or locked in a taunt-chain.
- Your taunt will only stun players a small distance away, but it provides a lengthy ÜberCharge. When taunting, go after more damaging targets such as Heavies or Sentry Guns.
- If you deploy the Übercharge whilst pinned by Sentry Guns, the Charge will protect you from them and allow you to land so you can take them out. Watch out for Pyros though, as their airblast is the Übercharge's only weakness.
- Remember that your scare taunt has an extremely limited range. Only go for the scare taunt when you are very close to an enemy.
- Be sure to take out Pyros who can easily airblast you into a corner for the duration of your ÜberCharge, as it does not protect you from pushback by weapons.
- Sentry Guns are the most difficult enemies for a Vagineer to deal with. Due to the fact that your scare taunt has a limited range, and because you cannot effectively disable Sentry Guns, always go for Engineers first, especially in maps such as Granary where Engineers can build on top of the boxes.
- Superjump can also be used when you run, but only as a leap.